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>> this is "bbc newsnight." funding for this presentation is made possible by the freeman foundation of new york, stowe, vermont, and honolulu, newman's own foundation, and union bank. >> at union bank, our relationship managers use their expertise in global finance to
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guide you through the business strategies and opportunities of international commerce. we put our extended global network to work for a wide range of companies from small businesses to major corporations. what can we do for you? >> as western countries across the world look to further gay- rights, we speak with a woman married in the world's first ever same-sex ceremonies. >> you can take care of one another outside of marriage, but it gives you a legal bond, and that is a commitment for life. >> british bank is find -- fined 390 million euros. -- 390 million pounds. >> seven years you have seen me active on our economy on unemployment, social problems. i demanded a renegotiation in
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order to control immigration. >> fans of a cryptic cross word in the u.k. were left at a loss for words after solving a particularly cryptic clue. hello. the question of gay marriage has ignited the political touch paper across the world. in his inauguration speech in january, barack obama linked the issue of gay rights to the wider history of civil rights in america. the last month has also seen large numbers of demonstrators on the streets of paris protesting against plans to extend a rights in the country. in the u.k., a bill was passed in the house of commons earlier in the week, supporting the rights of gay couples to get married, despite protests from some mp's.
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we spoke to a woman who got married in 2001 in the world's first-ever same-sex ceremony. >> thank you very much for joining us. you married your life partner. why did you want to get married k with your civil partnership? >> for us in the netherlands, marriage is the only legal bond that commits third parties as well. i want to show everybody this is the person i want to share my life with. >> do you expect that some people, for religious reasons and other reasons, will always be implacably opposed to what you have done and been able to do? >> sometimes i find it difficult because i'm not different than anyone else. it is just a human right to choose to take care of someone you love and to take care of your family. >> that right to take care of
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them and to be a family is different from saying, "we can only do that or only feel able to commit that properly within, some might say, the confines of marriage. >> it is not that you only can do that. you can take care of one another outside of a marriage, but it just gives you a legal bond, and that is a commitment for life. it makes it possible for parents to adopt children. for us, that was very important because that gives her and the children legal rights to one another. >> because you were as it were the birth mother of your children. what challenges have you faced in the last few years, or has it always been plain sailing? >> no, i wish it was true. you have always got to explain your family situation. not only us as adults, but also to children.
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in school, they have always got to explain in what kind of family they live. that can be difficult sometimes, but on the other hand, it is the way it is. we live it and we live with it. >> have people expressed their disapproval to you? >> yes, unfortunately, they have. >> what happened? emma they just tell you that they do not approve of your marriage. they do not recognize the adoption of the children. if they do it to me, i discussed it about a to with them. if they do it to my children, i'm really offended because they did not choose to live in our family. they have been born into it. for us, that is the main thing. when it comes close like family members, that hurts, but otherwise, we are just an ordinary family. it is their problem, not ours. >> do you see in the 12 years
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since you have been married a general change of attitude in society in the netherlands? >> it is getting more common. it is one of the options. you have got to explain. everyone asks when you are married, what is the name of your husband. their attitudes change, and indeed, the next generation, more countries have opened up marriage. it makes it more common. >> how do you begin to explain to people? how do you make it, as it were, less threatening to people perhaps to our religious and feel that it is an attack on their religion? >> i'm not affecting their religion. it is their religion, not mine. as i see it, i always learn from my parents that god is love. that is the only thing i do -- i love my partner and i love my
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children. what is wrong with that? >> and you are also religious? >> yes, we are. >> you are religious. within your church, has there been an acceptance that you did not expect or not acceptance? how has that operated within your church? >> that are fun of it. it is not a problem at all. it is not an issue, although, for us, it is not possible to get married in church at the moment. it is not an issue that we are lesbians and having kids and have a legal marriage. >> thank you very much for joining us. >> the excesses' of large banks before the global economic meltdown have been well documented, but this week, the light was turned on to a particularly touchy practice known as the libor fixing scandal and a worryingly unregulated system where banks were able to fix lending rates in a way that could benefit them financially. this week, the royal bank of
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scotland was fined 390 million pounds for its part in the scandal, so how did they do it, and who was responsible? >> after ppi, a lead bonuses, and reckless investments which caused -- outrageous bonuses and reckless investments which caused the financial crash, the bank's reputation came to a new all-time low. libor or the london interbank offered rate is a key interest rate used all over the world, and it can affect major investments, derivatives, and/or mortgages. here is how it is set -- a pool of banks based in london tell the british bankers' association how much they paid to borrow money from other banks for certain periods of time, such as overnight or for three months. the bba collets the submissions, strips at the highest and lowest numbers and reaches an average figure for that day which is
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published. the scandal developed when it emerged that some banks tried to move the rate up or down to make a profit. traders would call up colleagues to submit their rates to the bba and urge them to submit an inaccurate made on behalf of the bank in order to skew the average figure in the preferred direction. if you shake 0.1% of the interest rate on a 1 billion pound bond, it could be worth 1 million pounds to someone. that is what was unearthed by british and american regulators last summer. initially at barclays but subsequently at swiss bank ubs, and now the tax payer controlled are bs. it will doubtless show other banks were also at it for 2005 through 2010. -- now the tax payer-controlled rbs. fines being impose our for willful abuse of the system rather than for a specific amount earned as a result of it.
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investment banking boss is to be the sacrificial offering, even though he had no direct or indirect knowledge. >> there is definite pressure. we know there is pressure from the regulators. but they want to see scalps. they want to see various people fired. what i think is interesting is that the fine is being paid by the entire staff. 95% of them did not indulge in manipulating libor, and yet, they are paying for it. i firmly believe culture is set at the top of an organization, and if you set a culture that encourages wrongdoing, you need to leave, but i also think that individuals need to be held accountable. >> fines for libor abuse are enormous. ubs has paid 1 billion pounds.
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our bs -- rbs must now pay 390 million pounds, most of which will now go to american regulators. it is up for to the chancellor to intervene to sell the funds must be paid from clawback from previously paid bonuses. >> ne and will benefit the public, and when it comes to rbs, and clear that the bill related to this occasion should on this occasion be paid for by the bankers and not by the taxpayer. >> britain is set to introduce draconian new rules for wrongdoing committed by bankers which could put london at a disadvantage to other financial and around the world. there is danger you could throw the baby out with the bathwater. try telling that to families who are potentially paying more for their mortgage today. >> one name is synonymous with the leadership of the far right
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in france. he led the party since its formation. at last year's presidential election, she secured the support of 6.4 million voters, nearly one in five of the population. my colleague spoke to her from the european parliament in strasbourg earlier in the week. famishes the face of french euro skepticism. i asked if she supported david cameron's attempt to renegotiate the relationships between member states and the eu. >> several years we have seen the impact of the eu on our economy. on the right of unemployment and social problems. i demanded renegotiation of a certain number of trees in order to control immigration, but also, they prevent france from projecting a certain number. as a result, i understand mr. cameron in his desire for renegotiation, even if the consequences would not be the same for his government and the
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government that i would eventually lead. >> last month, david cameron of for the u.k. the prospect of an in-out referendum. >> i want to do the same thing as great britain. if i came to power tomorrow, i would decide to organize a referendum within 12 months. i would give myself 12 months to negotiate the most important points with the european union, and at the end of that, i would ask the french people to have their say on the points that we manage to renegotiate any points that the european union refused to negotiate. >> the issue of immigration played a prominent role in last year's election during a campaign which question the nature of french national identity. the campaign for legal migration into france to reset it 10,000 people a year.
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>> listen, i think that we need to profoundly change the rules around french nationality. the problem with france is that it automatically manufactures french people with all the well- documented problems of immigration that creates. for those foreigners legally in france, it is obvious -- either there is work and at that point they work entirely normally. the benefit from the social security associated with their jobs. or they are unemployed. after a certain time of unemployment, we asked them to go back to their country of origin because we cannot meet the needs of extra unemployed people at the very same time that we have officially 5 million unemployed people in france. in reality, a further 9 million people who are not working as much as they would like. >> i asked about the party's advocacy of a system of french first for jobs and some social services structured accommodations.
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>> yes, yes, we have defended for a long time now the idea of national preference or national priority, preferential access not only to jobs but also to social housing. charity begins at home. the responsibility of the leaders of the country is first and foremost to allow their own people to be able to work, to look after their families, to build up an estate. >> but essentially in france, would you not be creating, as it were, second-class citizens? is that not of itself a rather dangerous idea? >> i completely disagree with you. in every international treaty, it is accepted that you can reserve preferential access for nationals in their own country. when all else is equal, a french person will have priority access to a job. if there is no one of equal competence, then a foreigner can happily fill the job. >> the french intervention in
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its former colony has revived the fortunes of the beleaguered president. thousands of french troops are currently deployed in mali with francoise hollande declaring they will remain there for as long as necessary. >> we have a common history with mali. we are historical allies. we cooperate on defense, so it was only natural that we responded to the call. but that should not hide the fact that all the same in liz beat -- libya, we got involved not to advance the cause of democracy but to advance the cause of islamic fundamentalism. i was the only one for years who denounced this intervention in libya, denounced the fact that the libyan rebels, just like their counterparts in syria, are in reality corrected and that their seizure of power, notably in libya, where they immediately impose sharia law, was going to destabilize the entire region. that is exactly what is
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happening in mali today. >> the operation follows france's role alongside the u.k. for a party which campaigns on anti-immigration, the upheaval caused by the arabs spring was unwelcome. would she have preferred gaddafi to have remained in power? >> it would probably have been more effective, with using diplomatic means of putting pressure on gaddafi to introduce a not significant dose of democracy to his country to leave him in place. you must remember that as deplorable, as reprehensible character as he may have been in libya, like mr. assad in syria, like you might remember in iraq a few years ago, these governments fought against the rise of islamic fundamentalism. they contained it. >> i as i of that endorsement extends to the assad regime.
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>> i think that diplomacy and notably russian diplomacy, have made progress, which might allow an exit from the syrian conflict. what would be on the other hand in the catastrophic in my opinion would be to help islamic fundamentalists to brutally overthrow the government of assad. if they take control of syria, they will impose sharia law and persecute minorities. we cannot just do whatever we want in these countries, and breaking off relations with bashar al assad is senseless. on the other hand, guiding democracy in the country would be much more successful than what we are currently doing. >> paintings, books, and plays often contain clues as to the artist or writer's state, but what about a cross word? a master of the art of the
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cryptic cross word has something very important to tell his legions of fans, so he put it where he had made his life's work -- in a crossword puzzle. >> 10 across, chilly pine by a river, roman date base for a song. nine letters. >> to try to describe one of these puzzles, i think it is the wit. they're almost always is a clue or a couple of clues that will make you laugh. they are witty. they make you laugh. that is what people who do not do crosswords think is most peculiar, that the clue will make you laugh with the light. >> if your for with a crossword puzzle is a bit checkered, you
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may have fallen foul of the ingenious 91-year-old john gramm, a former vicar who has been setting puzzles in a national paper for 50 years. he sees clues everywhere. is it an affliction? >> i too would be an exaggeration to call it an affliction, but it is there. you are not appreciate it because you have been sidetracked. m o one across -- article 4 crosswords and powder, eight letters. magazine. come see the privates on parade
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♪ >> simon russell beale knocking them dead in the west end in "province on parade" finds the crosswords a nice change after all that cross dressing. >> for the company i'm in at the moment, -- when you say through the evening, not while the show is going on? really? >> well, you've got five minutes. there is a direct connection. i think a lot of his solvers think they know what type of man he is, and i have an absolutely clear picture of the type of sense of humor he has. >> it is a wonderful process
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because i do not get to know my solvers but they get to know me. i do not understand quite how it works, but they do. the relationship is an odd one. >> that relationship changed dramatically after he published a cross word with this master clue. 18 down or 19 across, treated with 1315. cancer, esophagus. palliative care. >> a started it, and i got cancer and i got esophagus and i got appellative care. to be honest, i did not want to continue it. i mean, i thought it was an amazing thing to do, but i did not feel comfortable continuing
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with it. m a many others were touched, too, including this solver. >> for many years, my wife and i derive a great pleasure from unraveling his mysterious way with words. a joint cry of "bugger you" would wring out every time we finished one. yesterday, i could only manage a "bless you." >> i never expected it. it is incredible. people have written me, send me cards and letters and e-mails. i did not expect anything like that. >> was sort of things did they say to you? >> they say different things. i mean, because at some point,
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the phrase it as though i was dying of cancer, which have not, really. i have cancer, but i've got plenty of time to die of something else. there is no knowing, but some people are upset by this. it has brought tears to my eyes just doing it now. >> what do you think of the theatricality, if you will, of announcing your illness, in this case, through the clues of a crossword puzzle? that has a certain drama, doesn't it? >> yes. good for him. it has panache, and it has a
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self mockery, too, about it. it is not making light of it exactly, but it is just -- it is just appropriate. it is done for this -- what we call ourselves? >> solvers? >> solvers. it is done for his solvers. i think it is great. >> contemplating the end of things, a lot of us crossword buffs and others tend to draw a blank. not so, the rev. john graham. >> it is absurd that we waste an awful lot of time.
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in the old days, they did not bother. they thought that have been was more important than earth, and we have lost that idea, but i actually think it is true. >> in the afterlife, are there crosswords there? forgive me. >> if i do see, i think it transcends anything we can think about. >> that is all from us for this week. from all of us on the program, goodbye. unbowe
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>> makes sense of international news at >> funding for this presentation is made possible by the freeman foundation of new york, stowe, vermont, and honolulu, newman's own foundation, and union bank. . >> at union bank, our relationship managers work hard to know your business.
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BBC Newsnight
WHUT February 10, 2013 8:00am-8:30am EST


TOPIC FREQUENCY Us 10, Libya 4, Syria 3, Honolulu 2, Newman 2, David Cameron 2, Union Bank 2, Bba 2, New York 2, Britain 2, Stowe 2, Vermont 2, France 1, John Graham 1, Eu 1, Bank Ubs 1, Francoise Hollande 1, Ubs 1, Assad 1, John Gramm 1
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